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Sticky:[Citadel] Capital Escalations and Drifter Boss

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2177	Posted - 2016.04.05 09:02:40 - [1] - Quote Fielding 3 capitals for an extra 150 mil is not worth the risk neither is fighting a drifter that can potentially insta-pop one of your ships. I'll probably do a more detailed post later but right now, these changes don't seem very well thought out. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2178	Posted - 2016.04.06 12:53:46 - [2] - Quote At first glance, these changes sound exciting but after i took some time to think about it, these changes do not improve the wormhole experience as they should. I believe CCP goal with these changes are as follows: 1. To stop wormhole sites from being farmed 2. To encourage site running outside of your home system 3. To dissuade people from using capitals I think most people will agree that points 1 & 2 are good design goal but I doubt any reasonable person would want capita wormhole gameplay to suffer as it will do in the new system... which it will because the risks are not balanced with the rewards. How it will shape out People will farm there static connections in sub capital fleets without fully completing the site, to prevent the Drifter from spawning. Once players figure out how to deal with the Drifter without losing a ship, they may kill the drifter. However, if the drifter takes too long to kill using sub caps, it will probably be better not to spawn it and just move to the next site. It will be vary rare that capitals are used outside of a home system for two reasons - firstly because you can currently only bring one through your connection and have it safely return and secondly because the maximum you can home to receive from doing this is an extra 50 million. So, what we will see is less capitals in space and instead, people will switch to more mobile harder to catch sub-capitals, that can disengage from the site and roll their hole at the first sign of trouble. How is should be People have been saying for years that wormhole PVE should be more interesting and typically site the following as good ways to do this: 1. Add a random aspect to site spawning to make it less predictable 2. Stop people farming the same site for multiple days 3. Encourage site running in the static The proposed changes do not do what we have been asking for and in has a huge potential of ruining wormholes space PVE in C5/C6 systems. However, with a few modifications CCP's plan could achieve the above design goals. Firstly, capital escalations should still be a thing that rewards bringing capital ships, while at the same time making sites more challenging. I propose that it only takes One capital to fully escalate the site. However, the escalation sleepers will come in randomly timed waves. For example, you warp a dread on field and the first escalation immediately spawns but a random timer also starts in the background, so that sometime in the next 3 minutes, the next wave will spawn. The combined escalation value needs to be enough to encourage you to risk your ship... 400 mil should do it (a 10th of the cost of a dread). Secondly, to stop sites from being farm-able, the site should simply de-spawn within a couple hours of 3 sleepers being killed in the first wave. And lastly, the Drifter should be somewhat random and it should be extremely more valuable. The appearance of the drifter should be chance based, as follows: * A very small chance (10-20%) of a drifter spawining if you run a site without capitals. * A medium chance (50-60%) if you use one capital * A high chance (80-90%) if you use multiple capitals The Drifter should also come in different forms depending on your fleet. For example, there should be a high neut power one if you bring a force auxiliary, i high alpha one if you only have sub-caps and one with a super weapon if you bring multiple caps. The different forms should be a little random though, to keep us guessing. I t Also i think the drifter should be valued at between 700m-1b to make it worth hunting them and to make up for the removal of the ability to farm the same site. I believe that the amendments I'm proposing will make capital escalation far more interesting and actually worth the time an effort to run. At the same time, we would see more people doing things outside of their home system which will also be great for the PVP community. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2182	Posted - 2016.04.08 09:46:56 - [3] - Quote Regarding the drifter boss, this should be an npc that is vulnerable to neuts. If the super weapon required capacitor, we would have some protection against in by using capacitor warfare. We could use bhaalgorns to neut the drifters and this coupled with the need to point the drifter, would make the ideal PVE fleet also a very capable PVP fleet. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2182	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:38:33 - [4] - Quote I appreciate that the developers are busy with the Citadel but the feedback to CCP Fozzie's proposed change have been mostly negative and there is no indication that our concerns are being listened to... Can we get some comments from CCP or at least the CSM to help move this discussion and confirm that there will be some significant changes to the original proposal? In my opinion, the main concern is how the massive nerf to income results in an unbalance of risk Vs. reward and as a result, activity in wormhole space will decline. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2182	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:03:50 - [5] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Current mechanic is simply broken, and was introduced to reduce the usage of the capitals, not increase it. For me those are good changes. People who desire to live in an unknown space without a local - will still do it. Some farming alts will move simply somewhere else. Eve needs to be different ( for me still there is a lot of potential to make things more interesting ) and unknown space should be unknown not farmville. That's all well and good but the fact is that this is a nerf to income and will most likely result in less people doing things in wormhole space. Fozzie said him self that good income and capital escalations has become a staple of wormhole space... you can't simply take that away and expect positive things to happen. There are already next to no conflict drivers in wormhole space other than the desire to hunt and kill and this change encourage people to stop using the big juicy targets that people love to hunt and kill. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2182	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:58:33 - [6] - Quote It's increased risk and increased time for let reward, thus it's a nerf... Don't forget you can't fully escalate the sites in your static. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2201	Posted - 2016.04.17 10:22:18 - [7] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Rek Seven wrote: That's all well and good but the fact is that this is a nerf to income and will most likely result in less people doing things in wormhole space. if by 'things' you mean doing nothing but farming in complete safety, then youre correct. So you prefer that people sit Citadel spinning or going out to HS to run incursions for their isk? Despite claims it is already becoming increasingly rare for people to be doing capital escalations in EU/US prime... And you think decreasing income and increasing effort will improve wormhole space?! Wormhole PVE should be challenging and risky but it should also be lucrative. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2201	Posted - 2016.04.18 08:11:05 - [8] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Stuff That's a good brief summery of the history of wormhole space jack, even if it is only from a C5/C6 dwellers perspective. Personally, i started from a C2 and worked my way up through C4, C5 and C6 space where I am now. The key contributing factors for me wanting to get to higher class wormhole was the isk earning potential and opportunity to play with capital ships. I'm sure that this applies to many other people. Jack Miton wrote: the time of escalations need to end. less people running escalations is a good thing, not a bad thing. You talk as if CCP could take away all isk from wormhole space and people would still PVP for to love of it. Nerfing income will only lead to even more empty systems and people looking to k-space for their isk. Don't misunderstand me, i'm not advocating for the continuation of farmable sites. I'm all for the changes providing they increase the value of the drifter and the escalation sleepers, and change how they plan for escalation waves to spawn. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2204	Posted - 2016.04.19 06:31:09 - [9] - Quote Times have changed and nothing is unknow in wormhole space anymore. It's sad to say but the fact is, everything in wormhole space revolves around PVE now. The old PVP days really eventually deteriorated in to arranged fights, which I something I hate. We have discussed this before but I've alway said I believe WH space lacks sufficient conflict drivers. PVP only corps are simply unsustainable in wormhole space without carebears to hunt. These groups end up getting most of their fights from k-space which doesn't help the situation. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2206	Posted - 2016.04.20 08:08:11 - [10] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: Thanks for your feedback so far folks! We have adjusted the spawning of the new Drifter so that people who can't handle it (marauders for instance) can skip it completely. Under the new system, a structure will decloak once the site is completed and you have the option of spawning the drifter by shooting that structure. We've also done a major balance pass on the new NPCs over the weekend, upping the challenge significantly. We're very interested in hearing what you folks think about the version that is on SISI right now. As a side note, the Drifter does not doomsday in its current iteration, but the neuting power has been ramped up quite significantly to provide a significant challenge without the danger of "one shotting" people. So, to summarise: 1. There is effectively going to be a "push button" to make the drifter spawn 2. The minuscule loot drop and high neuting of escalation NPC make it pointless to escalate 3. The high neuting power of the drifter makes passive fits the obvious option I love how mysterious and channelling wormhole space is about to become . Think i'll buy me a few Rattlesnakes... Cool game design guys! This is really inspired! The wishlist is pretty much complete...

Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2207	Posted - 2016.04.20 10:44:39 - [11] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: No way a rattle survives the drifter in its current form. edit: Also, even if a rattle were able to survive, the drifter has now so high ehp that it would take forever. I shot it with a 1200 dps marauder for about 15 minutes and just brought it to 20% shields. There was still full armor and structure. Killing it with subcaps is going to be totally inefficient. Only dreads will do it in any reasonable amount of time. True but I'm predicting the majority of people will not bother shooting/spawning the drifter unless it is in their own home system... At in the beginning. Later people may choose to bring a dread into their static but is it worth it? We are being pushed into running sites in our static, and for that, it will be more efficient to use a bunch of battleships to complete the basic waves and move on without worrying about the powerful drifter and escalation sleepers. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2209	Posted - 2016.04.20 11:25:13 - [12] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: If there are no changes to capital/hole mass to allow more caps through, then any static-ratting fleet will be limited to a single cap anyway. Yeah, the Nag and phonex will probably be the best options but to be effective, they will require a support fleet including reps, web, points and cap transfers... Where as you could put together 5 rattlesnakes capable of doing the base waves in under 5 minutes and maybe killing the drifter in around 10 mins? The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2209	Posted - 2016.04.20 14:01:48 - [13] - Quote I'm calling it now! Fozzies solution to this, will be to nerf the Rattlesnake Ps. as you may know, you can make a 1000+ dps, 2500 ehp/s passive tanked rattlesnake for around 950 mil. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2209	Posted - 2016.04.20 15:20:51 - [14] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: So even if you could achieve the same result with 4 alts in ships that cost only 2b total. That is still just a 300m npc in 45 minutes. That is 400m ISK/hour split four ways, either 4 chars or 4 players... That is ****** income, worse than some... Compared to what? I'm not sure if you are saying the doctrine is bad or the isk payout isn't good enough. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2213	Posted - 2016.04.27 15:16:21 - [15] - Quote Iam Cloaked wrote: W-space, especially C5/C6 is these days plagued by renters and Goon pets. Nerfing it is a good thing. Confirming that wormhole space needs less people. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2213	Posted - 2016.04.27 17:44:32 - [16] - Quote What a time to be alive The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2213	Posted - 2016.04.28 05:50:04 - [17] - Quote IMO even crab targets are better than no targets... Besides it's not like people won't be able to farm wormholes anymore. It will just happen less and they will use cheaper ships. The wishlist is pretty much complete...

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